A couple of post-refeed questions

[Jchime]

Hi guys,

This is my first post so I hope I am doing it correctly.

It has been over 2 months since I successfully completed the entire re-feed program and I am so thrilled with the results. So far, so good on maintaining my new weight. I pretty much stick exclusively to the intake of my final days of re-feed, with the exception of not having the cookie and only having 1-3 pieces of fruit.

I find that I still need to have that fruit for regularity, and I stick only to apples. Is that OK?

I recently had back-to-back celebrations and ended up eating way more of the wrong foods than I should have and instantly shot up several pounds.
In terms of the 48-hour rule, do you recommend following
a.)the original diet for those 48 hours or
b.)the refeed amounts,including allotted crackers, fruits and veggies,but leave out all other carbohydrates.

[bitten]

hi there and well done you on such a success.
i believe that is would be B.-
but sasha will be on soon to be exact!!!

bitten

[Jchime]

Being relatively new to the maintenance phase I have a couple of questions:

1.) Since red wine is very low in carbs, as low or lower than crackers, I am not sure why it raises insulin levels.

2.) How do I know if and how many apples I can have on the maintain phase?

[Shasha]

{hi} there Jchime

Following the Re-feeding Program you should use your last day of Re-feeding as an indication of how much proteins, veggies etc your body needs, but you should not need to continue weighing foods etc or eating only the foods listed on your Re-feeding Program. I know that many Diet Buddies can feel safe if doing so, but you need to move from safety to making wise decisions and the only way to do this is to take your freedom one day at a time, :artist: bring in new goodies and weigh yourself every day to monitor your body's progress to the previous day's foods.

You may continue to eat your fruit, especially if you like the diet fruits, but I do recommend variety - remember that different color fruit and veggies contain different nutrients and a balanced variety of these would be best. Also, we don't want you getting bored with only eating apples.

Dr Cohen says that immediately following an 'event' that you should do the 48 hour no starch. This means eating like you normally would, but cutting out all your starch ie: no bread, rice, potato, beans, pumpkin etc. On the days you do 48 hour no starch, you may still have your original diet allowance of crackers, but no more than 2 at a time.

Doing this will help your insulin levels to normalize and your weight should then drop right down. If you gain more than 4 pounds say because of holidays or a few days of eating wrong, I recommend going back onto your original diet plan for a few days until the extra weight is gone and your hormones are stabilized again.

Please keep us posted on your progress {cheerleader} How much weight did you lose?

[Shasha]

{hi} there Jchime

Starch is not the only thing that triggers insulin. Alcohol triggers insulin too - please follow the rules for alcohol on pages 25 and 26 of your Re-feeding Guide.

You can have as many fruit as per your last day of Re-feeding, if you want to experiment with more fruit for desert, try leaving out some of your starch. How much food you can have will always depend on what the reading on the scale is. :quiet: Your body will quickly tell you if you are eating too much or if you are eating wrong foods...

[Jchime]

Thank you Shasha and Bitten very much. I think I can get the hang of the refeed...although it is hard to break away from the weighing and measuring :-( I had tried so many other programs and nothing else worked. So I have a tendency to want to cling to what did work...the weighing and measuring.

One thing that really helps is that my husband is also doing the program, so that means that we have the same type of foods in the fridge.

I am still a teeny bit confused on the fruit. Cohen's program said no fruit after the program, but on the "Unofficial Cohen website" I noticed that several people did have fruit. Can I have it during the 48 hour period?

[Jchime]

Ahh...so it's not just the carbs in alcohol, it's the chemistry etc. of it that triggers the insulin?

[Shasha]

{hi} Jchime

Dr Cohen says the following about fruit on pages 24 and 25 of your Re-feeding Guide:

Fruit and Obesity. If you were a severely obese person, stay away from fruit, especially the Bad Fruits we added during Re-feeding. (Bad fruit being banana's, watermelon etc. because they are higher in sugar.)

Dr Cohen then goes on to say:

Fruits. Have maximum of one fruit a day. Fruit has a high sugar content and, therefore, when you are done with Re-feeding, limit yourself to one fruit a day or a portion of a fruit salad—preferably after a carbs/starches meal. Do not eat fruit before breakfast! Having fruit on an empty stomach will send sensitive insulin levels high—starting a “fat fact*ory.”

So you can have fruit, but need to carefully monitor which fruit you do have and at which time.

Remember, there is DIET FRUIT, then GOOD FRUIT, then BAD FRUIT. If you really felt like having a fruit as a snack say at 11 am because on the diet you became use to eating an apple then, I recommend you have an apple and see how your body reacts. If you are hungry 20 minutes later you should not do this again because your body triggered too much insulin. If however you were not hungry, you may eat a DIET FRUIT as a snack.

BAD fruits should certainly be kept as deserts ie: after your starch meal. Having a fruit for desert is a much healthier choice than having sweets or chocolate. :thinking:

You may have fruit during the 48 hour no starch, but I would recommend having limited amounts of the fruit from your DIET, afterall, you are trying to stabilise insulin and you are trying to lose a pound or two quickly. Best would be to try - you need to experiment to find what works for you.

I'm glad to hear that your hubby is also eating healthy - that is so very nice for you!

Hope you don't mind but I've decided to merge your two threads into one thread, both of them contain post refeeding questions so they are pretty much about the same subject...

[Jchime]

Hi Shasha,

Thank you so much for this great info. I am definitely going to watch the reaction to fruit intake.

Am glad you combined the two threads into one. In terms of posting new threads...is there a category along the lines of "Maintenance" where I can post a question, or should I stick to the categories of "Introductions", "Support" etc.?

~Jchime

[mas]

Hi All!

Again, thanks to all of you for all of the good questions and advice - has made this process much easier! I just finished week 6 and I have reached Cohen's goal weight (17 lbs.). This may not seem like much to some of you . . . but it's been a long time since I've been able get to this point! And I'm in clothes I haven't been in years! This is exciting! I am currently waiting for my blood test results.

I would like to continue to lose additional weight, but I'm also anxious to get to re-feeding (have a trip coming up and would appreciate being a little more flexible). Is there a disadvantage to going on re-feed and "taking a break" then going on the original plan again? I say "talking a break" with caution - I know my old ways must change!

Also, it seems that Jchime & Shasha have indicated that fruit is more limited on the re-feed? No fruit before breakfast? I haven't been eating all of my fruit allowance every day, but my new breakfast is yogurt & fruit smoothie - I'd hate to give that up - this is the first time I've actually managed to have breakfast everyday! I like the diet fruit, but am anxious to add other fruits . . . what is on the good fruit list?

Appreciate all of your "expertise"! And all keep up the good work - there have been amazing results posted so congratulations to all! It's comforting to know that people are maintaining weight after 2 months post re-feed!
mas

[Jchime]

Hi mas,

Congratulations on making your goal :-). I had a similar situation to yours in that mid-way into my re-feed I had to go on a week long business trip, where I knew it would be impossible to weigh and measure. So I sent an email to the consultants and included their answer below. Basically you will need to do the original diet for 14 days, or until you are back to your goal weight (whichever is longer) and then restart the re-feed program.

Here is what the consultants said:

"Thank you for your e-mail.

You should only do a Refeeding Program if you have been on diet 100% for at least 2 weeks so that your hormones can be stabilized.

As you will not be able to finish your Refeeding Program before your trip, we recommend that you go back on diet 100% for two weeks upon your return. Following this you may proceed to do your entire Refeeding Program.

We wish you every continued success with your program. Please let us know if you have any questions."

Regards,
The Consultants Team
1st Personal Diet

Regarding the fruit, it is more limited on the maintenance period.I am still experimenting with what works for me on that. The "good fruits" are the ones that are introduced in the refeeding program.

One thing I definitely recommend is reading the re-feed several times. When I first read Dr. Cohen's instructions to read it twice I remember thinking that sounded kind of silly. But then later on I discovered that I had still missed things even after reading it twice!

I hope this helps :-)

~Jchime

[mas]

Hi Jchime,

Thanks for the reply & encouragement! - definitely helpful. If I want to still lose weight, do you think I should stay on the original diet or get the re-feed for a "break" and then start back? After much reading, sounds like the re-feed is more complicated than the original diet? I get that you need to be on the original program for 2 weeks before the re-feed - thanks that was real helpful. Honestly, I'm pretty curious about the re-feed (probably more that I want to eat more!) Appreciate any experience you have!
mas

[Jchime]

Hi mas,

If you made your goal, then I definitely recommend doing the re-feed. Although, in re-reading your earlier email, I noticed that you had said that you reached Cohen's weight goal. Is that the same as your goal? For some reason I never got a weight goal from Dr. Cohen. I knew that I had a stubborn 10-15 pounds that would not budge inspite of trying a number of programs. So once I hit the goal of losing them, I knew I was done. So I would continue the diet program until you hit the exact goal that you want. Then go on re-feed.

Another tip, if you have not done this. Buy a binder and some of those plastic/vinyl page holders. When you get your re-feed print it out and put it in the binder. You may also want to put the original diet in there too, in the front. The re-feed is definitely more detailed, which is great because you are gradually adding foods back into your diet. It is the final stretch of stabilizing your hormones and you want to do it 100%. Having that binder really helps as you'll be referring to it a lot.

I do not recommend doing the re-feed for a break. Think of it as a whole block of time - diet+refeed - to get your hormones stabilized. When I got back from my trip I set aside a block of time, which ended up being approximately 4-6 weeks, where there were absolutely no deviations. I did two weeks of the diet and then the re-feed. It was hard, but worth it, as I think that has been the key in keeping my goal weight.

I hope that I answered your question correctly,

~Jchime

[Shasha]

{hi} there MAS & Jchime

So nice to read your discussions regarding the Re-feeding Program... I agree with everything Jchime said, {goodjob} no problems but would like to add the following:

MAS, in the previous thread I read you had eaten corn... a real NO NO! on the diet because corn as you will see in the Re-feeding Program, corn is a starch, not a vegetable ie: it falls into the same category as potato, not carrots.

Yes, the Re-feeding program is complicated because you constantly add more foods and new types of foods... You should only start when you have been on diet 100% for a minimum of 2 weeks (your hormones must be balanced) and when you have reached your ideal goal weight.

Dr Cohen normally gives a goal weight between two goals (unless you are already very close to the goal he has in mind for you, in this case you will be asked what your personal goal weight is). Say for example between 134 and 140 pounds. Dr Cohen cannot see you and the 6 pounds play is depending on if you have a small or larger frame size ie: you should chose 134 pounds if you have a small frame or 140 pounds if you have a larger frame or more muscles. Hope this helps you to see where your personal goal is.

Re-feeding may only be requested when you are 5 pounds away from YOUR goal weight ~ taking the Re-feeding Program BEFORE you have reached your target weight will cause weight gain because of the gradual introduction of large food quantities as part of the Re-feeding process.

The Re-feeding Program is designed to do when you no longer carry excess fat. If you still have excess fat your body will be prone to storing fat and you don't want that to happen.

So, if you need to take a break due to a trip, take the break, following the travel tips as best as you can, then come back, go straight back on diet 100% for at least two weeks or until you reach goal, whichever takes longer and then start you Re-Feeding Program.


Looking forward to seeing both of you staying skinny! {wave}

[Bronwyn]

Hi Mas,

I am in the same dilemma. I am ready to start refeed as I have just surpassed my goal weight by .6 pounds. I have a business trip next week so don't know if I should start refeed before or after my trip. Obviously, I am so ready to start!!! BUT I don't want to mess up now. I've emailed the consultants to see what they think I should do. I am going to take my food scale and stay on plan during my trip, but I won't be taking my body scale and won't be able to weigh myself every day as you are supposed to during refeed. I also wouldn't trust the scale as my weight tends to fluctuate when I travel so that wouldn't work with refeed either.

My thought is to start refeed this week, then stick to what ever day I'm on within the refeed plan while I'm on my trip, and then continue with refeed when I return. If the consultants say otherwise thoughl, I'll start refeed when I return. Again, I'll be sticking to plan while I'm gone so I hope they'll agree to let me do it as I suggested above. I'm so irritated to have this trip in the middle of when I'm finally ready to go. I do firmly believe that everything works for a reason, though. What's the worst that could happen... I get too skinny??? Darn, that'd be horrible.

Let me know what you decide to do too. Sounds like we're very much in the same boat.

[mas]

Hi Jchime, Shasha & Bronwyn,

First Browyn - congratulations! I've watched your ticker down to the last few pounds so that's great!

Jachime, appreciate your tips and words of wisdom & Shasha - I hear you (and commented under the "another newbie with more questions" thread). I'm not sure if I'm doing this forum thing right - trying not to duplicate.

Browyn, based on all the info received, I'm going to go on my trip & stay on the diet (or close to it); then do 2 weeks 100% then re-feed. Although I reached Cohen's goal, I am 5 lbs. away from my goal weight and I have requested the re-feed diet. I should be down to my goal by then. They said it would take a week to send it to me, so I really don't have a choice anyway. This is all assuming that my doctor says I can continue (see the post referenced above).

Based on what I've read about re-feed (I think you repeat a day if you gain weight?) sounds like your plan is a good one - but certainly someone with more knowledge would be in a better position to comment! DON'T GET TOO THIN!!
mas

[Shasha]

{hi} Bronwyn & Mas


{grouphug1}

I'm so proud of you girls; you've come a long way {goodjob}

Bronwyn: it's really important to monitor your body's reactions on the scale each day during the Re-feeding Program to see how your body copes and as you won't be taking your bathroom scale with you, the best would probably be to diet 100% while you are gone and then to start Re-feeding the day after you get back - how long are you gone? A week? Or more?

Another consideration about becoming too thin... Normally Dr Cohen gives you a goal weight between two points ie: 134 to 140 pounds - have you surpassed your bottom end or top end of your goal weight by .6 pounds?

I don't know if you've read it somewhere on the Forum before, but the higher goal is for if you have a large build or bone structure and the lower goal is for if you have a small build. So, if you have a small build you should continue to diet until the lower goal - giving you time to complete your trip.

Wishing you a BON VOYAGE :plane:

[Bronwyn]

Hi Shasha! Okay - so here's my reality check and thank goodness for my guardian angels or whatever higher power is helping me out here. I did pick 120 as my target weight mainly because I couldn't imagine ever weighing that little again and because I thought I would have no more fat on my body if I were that thin again. I have read about the small frame vs. med. vs large, etc. and my weight range given by Dr. Cohen is 114-120. I am now at 119.4 and yes, I still have some fat to lose (mostly in my belly). I think having to go on this trip is my guardian angels way of making me follow this plan 100% correct to the end as I'm sure by the time I get back that's when I'm supposed to start the refeed and not before. As anxious as I am to get to the end I don't want to do this wrong. So I'm changing my goal weight to 117 as I am more a medium frame and will start refeed if/when I hit that, hopefully by the end of my trip.

I will do my best to stay on track 100% during my trip. I do understand also that if there are any deviations I will need to follow my plan 100% for two weeks prior to starting refeed. That is motivation enough to not deviate!!!

Thanks for your advice and for listening.

[bitten]

wow. bronwyn.
you sound like you have it all sorted.
congrats on being such a cohens super star!!!!

i am thrilled for your success.
bitten

[Shasha]

{wave} GO!! BRONIE GO!! {wave}


...I did pick 120 as my target weight mainly because I couldn't imagine ever weighing that little again and ... I am now at 119.4 ...

{wave} GO!! BRONIE GO!! {wave}

[Bronwyn]

Hey Bitten,

Thanks! You are doing amazingly well too and I can't wait to see your next weigh-in results. You must've broken the "fat barrier" (as Mrs. Peel called it) already as you were very close to going below 200. Good for you!!!

[Bronwyn]

...and THANK YOU Shasha!!! Yes - This is amazing. When I hit my goal of 117 I won't have weighed that little since I was about 19 years old. SO COOL!!! I am getting so many compliments from everyone I know (and some I don't) and I am absolutely loving life. Thank you Dr. Cohen!!!

[Shasha]

{hi} there Bronwyn

Well, thanks to the rejuvenating powers of Human Growth Hormone, I'm sure that 19 WAS NOT THAT LONG AGO FOR YOU!!!!! lol Your hubby better keep the doors and windows locked!!! And I suggest that he get a BIG DOG & A SHOT GUN!!!

REALLY, I'M THRILLED WITH YOUR WONDERFUL PROGRESS :clapping3:


AND I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU'VE SHARED YOUR JOURNEY WITH US ALL!!! {wave}


NOTHING ~ AS IN NO FOOD ON EARTH ~
CAN POSSIBLY TASTE AS GOOD AS YOU ARE FEELING RIGHT NOW!!!
:christmas:

[Bronwyn]

Shasha you are too funny!!! I actually I am turning 37 this year so 19 was a while ago. I'm so happy I'm doing this at this point in my life because most people, especially women, do say that after 40 it is harder to maintain your figure. Now that I knwo what I know and have my hormones in balance I've set myself up for FABULOUS FORTIES!!! Thanks for your kudos, support, and encouragement always.

[bitten]

you have given yourself the perfect birthday pressie ever bronwyn!

bitten

[Shasha]

{hi} there Bronwyn

:bighug: Okay, so maybe you've been on the planet for 37 years ... still a spring chicken!!! And I'll very willing to bet that people are actually commenting on how much younger you look :flirt:

With those FABULOUS FORTIES coming up in your healthier new slim body, your hubby BETTER GET THAT GUN AND TWO DOGS, never mind one!!!

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A BALL!!! And, you've worked hard, so you deserve it!!!

TIP: Post Re-feeding I want you always remember to monitor your body's reactions on the scale - daily or at least very often. This way if there is a little problem such as your gaining 2 pounds, you can do something about it right away... {pan} This way little problems don't gather friends and become bigger without your knowing about them...

You're almost there, just keep going a little bit longer...

[LesKiya]

What kind of bad stuff is in DQ ice cream? I could really use a small cone sometime after refeed and am wondering what all types of categories that falls under! Can you advise on ice cream (ice milk). Leslie

[Bronwyn]

Hi Leskiya,

Not sure completely here, but from what I've read and what I understand about "Life After the Diet" you'd be allowed to give yourself this treat once in a while. Desserts should be eaten within 30 minutes following your carb meal of the day (so that your insulin isn't triggered as the sugar from the ice cream will mix w/the sugars in the carbs). Also keep your portion small. I'm sure you've taken that away from this diet too, so instead of a milk shake or malt, or several scoops just settle for one good scoop of your favorite flavor. That would be my guess... We'll see what Shasha says.

[Shasha]

{hi} there Leskiya & Bronwyn

Bronwyn is 100% right, :icecream: Ice-cream = deserts, so within 1 hour of your starch meal is the rule...

You can certainly have treats, :icecream: and I agree with Bronwyn’s approach, focus on QUALITY not QUANTITY – no point in ever having a huge cone – half way through your mouth is frozen and you can’t taste anything anyway {lol}